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Real Russia visa agency London. Beware, be very aware...

Brighouse, United...
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Real Russia visa agency London. Beware, be very aware...

Real Russia visa agency London. Beware, be very aware...

… of the lack of service offered by this cowboy outfit.

This email conversation happened in early July and I’m only posting this just now as I returned from Russia and Mongolia yesterday. As you can read in the conversation, in chronological order, they messed up, caused me extra expense and stress and took no responsibility for it. They then threatened me with legal action.

You might reply how wonderful their service was. Great for you. Just be aware that it’s not all swimming with this outfit and that there are other visa agencies that can’t be as bad as them.

In hindsight I found the way RR treated me was a good introduction to the way Russians do business.

Chris Bright To RealRussia 01 July 2013 05:28 PM

Dear Real Russia

I ordered a Mongolia, a Kazakhstan and a 90day/double entry Russia visa on 24th May 2013 with ref number xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, allowing PLENTY OF TIME for all 3 visas to be arranged.

As hoped, I received notifications that the Mongolia (28th May) and Kazakhstan (6th June) visas had been arranged.

Then there a long lull hearing nothing about the Russia visa. According to your website you were arranging for the LOI to be generated on 13th June. Still having heard nothing, on Monday 17th June I called you to enquire on the progress of the Russian visa. I was told that there were some sort of “technical” problems with the LOI issuer and that I would have to pay for a new LOI to be issued by a different organisation. I questioned why I should have to do this when clearly this was no fault of mine and was told I had no choice.

Because of you taking your eye off the ball and not even realising there was a “problem” until I called on the 17th, I was also forced to pay even more to speed up the consular process. Furthermore, to expedite the situation so that I could still catch my flight, I had to settle for a single entry visa which has forced me to detrimentally adapt my itinerary while in Russia, Mongolia and Kazakhstan.

I appreciate there may indeed be “technical” problems at the original LOI issuer in Russia. However, it isn’t my problem that your contact in Russia cannot “come up with the goods”. The lady I spoke to said there had been problems with this LOI issuer for a while. Had you been organised and proficient you would not have put me through all this stress and extra expense. You should have arranged the LOI from the new issuer, paid the extra for the quicker consular service yourself and I would have been none the wiser, as well as a satisfied customer!

Instead you had me over a barrel and forced me to pay the extra fees so that I would get any sort of visa. Had I asked for a return of my passport without my Russian visa, I could not have gone elsewhere because of the short time left before my trip to Russia, for which I have an apex flight ticket.

With this new “high speed” process I was promised my visa and passport on Thursday 27th June. I eventually received my passport and visa on Saturday 29th June!

You recall this isn’t the first time I have received a shoddy service from you. In 2012 you caused me hassle and stress with regard to a Mongolian visa, ref number MTS-xxxxxxxxxx.

I am really struggling to think of reasons why I would recommend you to friends and family fellow travellers and business people I know in the many online communities I frequent. I really just want you to stop messing customers about and get your house in order. Why shouldn’t I just tell everybody I know about that Real Russia is actually like?

I politely request you refund me the £144.70 plus credit card fee = £148.31 I paid on 18th June that was no fault of my own.

Yours sincerely,

RR to CB: 02 July 2013 11:00 AM

Dear Mr Bright,

Unfortunately, UFMS in Moscow where all Corporate Visas are processed recently implemented a new system which subsequently crashed and has left them processing everything manually, which unfortunately has lead to huge delays. You visa has been caught in this delay, but we cannot be held responsible for this.

We offered an alternative solution, which you took and we processed your visa as soon as possible.

I am disappointed that you feel this way regarding the process, however the events were outwith our control.

Yours sincerely,

CB to RR 02 July 2013 11:14 AM

Dear Mas

UFMS were unable to provide a service: Fine. If somebody doesn't provide a service they shouldn't get paid. Why should I then pay a different organisation a second time for the same "product"? Why didn't you take the UFMS money and use it to pay the new LOI organisation?

If you're not a manager at Real Russia, please escalate this to them. If you are a manager, please understand that if this situation is not solved in a satisfactory manner, RealRussia will lose a great deal more that £148.31 in new business.

You know my complaint is not unreasonable and that you were incompetent and had me over a barrel.

Best Wishes,

RR to CB 04 July 2013 09:20 AM

Dear Mr Bright,

UFMS is the is the Russian Federal Migration Service and as such is a government run department. When paying for a visa you are paying the government to consider your application, in this case they are having issues with their internal processes which has meant lengthy delays.

As such to help you obtain your visa in time for your trip we advised using the department based in a different jurisdiction who do not have internal issues and that is why you had to pay again. If you had not paid for the alternative service, we would still be waiting on your visa coming through and there were no guarantees as to when you would have received it.

I completely understand your frustration, however we cannot be held responsible for Russian governmental issues and therefore we will not be issuing a refund.

Yours sincerely,

CB to RR 04 July 2013 09:40 AM

Hi Mas

It wasn't the case that my application was ever considered by anyone and then refused. It was never even looked at because the UFMS had a problem with their "internal process", as you say. Fine. If they (and by implication you, whom I paid) didn't do what I paid them for, I expect a refund. This refund should have been used to pay the new LOI organiser, rather than me having to pay yet again.

From my conversation with one of your colleagues I know that UFMS had been having problems for a while. Hence you should never have sent my LOI application to UFMS, but to an LOI issuer that you knew was able to supply what I was paying for. This is why I am questioning your competence.

This dialogue between us is going round and round in circles. If you really aren't able to bring this to a satisfactory conclusion I'll be copy/pasting our conversations into various relevant public internet forums. Clearly it's not cost effective for me to start legal proceedings for this small amount and I am able to still pay the rent/buy food, but you're not allowed to get away with this! A lot of people will find out about how Real Russia actually works. You'll also recall my Mongolian visa fiasco from last year. You have form.

Best wishes

RR to CB 04 July 2013 10:45 AM

Dear Mr Bright,

Again, I am aware of your frustrations with this, however we have acted in with responsibility throughout this process and have put your interests first in all our interactions.

To answer the points in your email: I would like to point out that I have not said that your application was refused, I stated that your application was delayed. UFMS have had these issues only since the beginning of June, which is exactly the time when your visa application was sent, therefore we had no prior knowledge that your visa would have any delays.

I would like to point out that we do monitor public forums and if we find anything that is defamatory, libellous or factually inaccurate we will take appropriate action.

Your sincerely,

CB to RR 04 July 2013 11:52 AM

Dear Mas

Please read my last email of today, 4th July at 9.40am again. If you do, you'll see that your reply looks ridiculous. I could explain it to you, but there's be no point...

OK, I will try... I never said that you had said the application was refused! I paid for a service that was to have a LOI issued in a certain amount of time. You and your chosen Russian contact were unable to do this in the time you said it would be done. Thus, I should have received a refund of the monies I paid for something I didn't get. This refund should have been used to pay the new LOI issuer. I should not have been forced to pay twice! Because of this delay I was forced to pay extra for a speeded up consular service at the Russian Embassy so that I wouldn't miss my flight to Russia.

Please advise the exact timeline of when you knew there was a problem with UFMS and when you submitted my application. Explain why, the minute you knew there was a problem, you didn't withdraw the application and use somebody who was able to furnish the required LOI. Also advise why you only got organised following a call by me on 17th June (my original LOI application was scheduled to be ready on 13th June). Please also explain why you promised to have my passport back to me by 27th June and it arrived on 29th June.

Thank you so much for your threat of "appropriate action". You present yourself as a an excellent example of gunboat diplomacy. You clearly haven't read page 1 of any book on Public Relations. Rest assured, I'll only copy and paste our email traffic and leave others to make their own conclusions. Maybe you'll threaten the websites with legal action too?

Do Real Russia a favour and please escalate this complaint to your line-manager.

Yours sincerely

RR to CB 4 July 2013 14:28

Dear Mr Bright,

I have discussed your complaint with my Line Manager and they are in complete agreement that we cannot offer any refund.

As I have previously said, I have sympathy with your situation, but Real Russia cannot be held responsible for third parties, as per our Terms & Conditions.

Your sincerely,

Banbury
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1. Re: Real Russia visa agency London. Beware, be very aware...

Unfortunately for you all you've done is make yourself look a little foolish here.

The important point to which you have chosen to leave out is that this was an application for a business visa, even the most basic of searches into this category of visa would have led you to see that the LOI can only come from the Russian Federal government so in your case there was simply no alternative supplier of this document.

If there was as it appears to be the case a delay by the Russian government in the issuing of this document no amount of emails, tantrums or use of another agency would have made the slightest difference to the outcome.

C'est la vie

Brighouse, United...
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2. Re: Real Russia visa agency London. Beware, be very aware...

Wrong. The visa I ended up getting was a business visa, just the LOI was issued by a different organisation. I had to pay twice. Once for a LOI that never came and once for one that did. LOIs can come from a multitude of different organisations. Businesses invite you, not the government.

Edited: 4:02 pm, August 27, 2013
Banbury
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3. Re: Real Russia visa agency London. Beware, be very aware...

<<LOIs can come from a multitude of different organisations. Businesses invite you, not the government.>>

No, a business can invite you but they must apply to the government for the official paperwork, that's the major difference between a tourist invitation and a business one and why they cost more. A tourist invitation can be issued within minutes from an accredited Russian company, but that's not how it works with business invitations.

You started off by saying you applied for a 90 day double entry visa so you knew that the visa you applied for was a business visa, not just what you ended up with.

Brighouse, United...
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4. Re: Real Russia visa agency London. Beware, be very aware...

Through a different LOI issuer, in a different region of Russia (not Moscow) I received the LOI that allowed the Russian authorities to issue a single entry 90 day business visa. I spent 48 days in Russia. Tourist visas are only valid for up to 30 days.

You don't know the situation. You are trying to pick imaginary holes. Give it up. Feel free to tell me how wonderful the experience you had with RR was, but stop telling me stuff that isn't correct/is at best irelevant.

The whole point of my complaint is that I was forced to pay twice for something and wanted a refund for the non-received "service".

Banbury
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5. Re: Real Russia visa agency London. Beware, be very aware...

I can see the situation quite clearly, you requested and paid for a business visa for which a LOI was ordered from the Moscow FMS (Federal Migration Service).

The Moscow FMS did not issue this document so your visa application could not be processed by the consulate in London, however a second request for a LOI was made to a different FMS to allow your visa to be processed on time.

You now are holding RR responsible for the actions of a department of the Russian government because of the delays and additional costs with you visa application.

Quite frankly they could have just sat back and done nothing while they waited for the FMS in Moscow to sort themselves out and you would have ended up with nothing.

They are not responsible for the actions of 3rd parties in your application, the decision to issue the LOI and the visa is beyond their control.

Brighouse, United...
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6. Re: Real Russia visa agency London. Beware, be very aware...

Your reply is wrong on so many counts. Just as with RR, I give up. I have to assume you work for RR or have a connection to them. I shall not bother continuing with this dialogue any more.

Have a good life.

Banbury
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7. Re: Real Russia visa agency London. Beware, be very aware...

<<Your reply is wrong on so many counts>>

Just saying I'm wrong doesn't make it so, you've had the opportunity to make your case but have chosen not to, so what should people here believe?

Of course I don't work for them although I have used their visa service in the past, but either way that's not really relavent is it? What you keep failing to understand is your a dealing with Russian bureaucracy and you obviously have no idea who the UFMS are.

The terms and conditions of your visa application in case you forgot,

"In some cases we are dependent upon various third parties who are beyond our reasonable control. As such, you agree that we will not be held liable for any losses, either consequential or inconsequential, that you may potentially or actually incur due to the actions or failure of such a third party. This includes, but is not limited to failure to meet expectations, reduced service levels or loss of documents by the Royal Mail, courier, postal or electronic delivery or communication services, a Consulate or state organisations such as the Russian Migration Authority."

Yes thank you, I will have a good life

Brighouse, United...
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8. Re: Real Russia visa agency London. Beware, be very aware...

Might be worth reading posts 5 and 6 over at horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/trip-paperwork/re… where I posted the same thread.

Quote

We had a similar problem with Real Russia, they incorrectly issued us 3 LOI for Russia and when we applied separately (because we are irish they wouldnt do the applications for us) we were told that the LOI was incorrect - We paid for a service that was not done correctly and it cost us a Russian visa, couldn't use a Mongolian visa and missed a flight home...

Unquote

Quote

May not be a good idea to use a company where the terms state "We do not accept any responsibility for any consequences of any errors made by us when processing your visa or visa support documents."

i.e. No matter how we screw up, it ain't our problem.

Unquote

Banbury
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9. Re: Real Russia visa agency London. Beware, be very aware...

What happened to not continuing this dialog?

Ok the not being responsible for the consequences part......taken out context of course but what it means is they won't be liable to pay any expenses such as hotels and flights....etc. They will obviously reimbursed their fees. Now go back to that little forum and ask those ever so helpful people to give you the details of an agency that will reimburse customers for such things as flights and accommodation it the same circumstances.

As for the alleged incorrectly issued LOI's the information from the poster is far to vague, RR for example customise these to their clients request so it's difficult to know who was at fault here, but it doesn't alter your case in any way since your problems as I keep reiterating were due to the Moscow FMS who are a department of the Russian government beyond the control of RR.

Look forward to hearing the replies about the agencies.....

Brighouse, United...
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10. Re: Real Russia visa agency London. Beware, be very aware...

Hello again

How do I let you down gently?

I confess... I am not having a dialogue with you. Sorry. I don't appreciate your belittling attitude. You have the arrogance to make you well qualified to work for RR. Chances are, you work for them. Are you their PR department?

If you go back to that "little forum" you'll be able to find out my email address. Please contact me via that medium and stop spamming this thread.