Don't stay at Sultanahmet Suites

Chicago
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Don't stay at Sultanahmet Suites
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Ladies and Gentlemen, please avoid the said facility as much as possible. Here is my experience.

Upon check-in, the owner agreed with a late check out. But on the last evening, it was announed that there was a new booking coming in, and the owner wished to move in those new guests. As a result, the agreement of late check out was nullified. When asked to keep to his word, he was indignated and declared that he "changed mind". The problem was not so much with the actual check out time, but that he easily broke promise, showing a lack of honesty and integrity.

A hidden cost of 4% against credit card payment was disclosed upon payment. When asked whether it could be waivered, the owner yelled "pay or go to the police". This temper (tantrum) and emotion was quite unusual.

Later it was found that going through online booking site was much cheaper than directly booking with this facility. When this was referred and a discount requested, the owner shouted, "that is YOUR PROBLEM!!!!!"

After the above conversations, the owner yelled at a customer, "you don't deserve to be treated well."

There are more to talk about, if necessary. But in any case nobody should go through this kind of experience. Most of the Turkish people are nice and quite helpful, though. Enjoy!

Regards,

Denizlove

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Perrysburg, Ohio
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21 reviews
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21. Re: Don't stay at Sultanahmet Suites
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In my opinion, all parties involved in this have over-reacted. While I believe the hotel owner had every right to contact his guests after their departure to try and straighten out whatever had occurred, making continuous and repeated calls to these former guests was not the way to handle it. There is a mechanism on TA for a hotel owner to dispute a review, and I feel that Joy/the owner should have utilized that mechanism when it was apparent that he was getting nowhere with these guests by talking to them on the phone.

As for Denizlove, the fact that she posted various reviews and comments on TA under various screen names indicates to me that she is not just looking for an apology from this hotel owner, but rather that she is doing everything possible to destroy this man's business and that she has engaged in a calculated smear campaign in order to do so. I'm sure many of us have experienced dissatisfaction of some sort while staying in a hotel, but most of us do not become obsessed with such an incident.

AlaskaItaly, I remember the incident you had with the hotel in question, and you handled it in a very classy, forthright way. While I'm sure you would never stay at that particular property again, you never started a smear campaign against the hotel or the owner. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of Denizlove.

Jo

Chicago
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21 posts
22. Re: Don't stay at Sultanahmet Suites
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Hi everyone,

Sorry for posting a long message again.

I would like to express my appreciation to Attagul, anatoliangirl, and enigma2007 for your thoughtful and kind comments as well as your trust in my true story. Thanks to you, I feel that I made a right decision to share my experience on this forum.

Also, alaskaitaly, I want to send special thanks to you, because I read about your terrible experiences before visiting Istanbul and was able to avoid that hotel, which was one of the candidates. Well, unfortunately, I happened to experience a similar ordeal at another accommodation, which is both sad and funny. But your earlier review was one of the major triggers that pushed my back to write about Sultanahmet Suites this time. I felt obliged to warn fellow travelers.

Meanwhile, I understand what osumom311 and suehami had to say. The incident - a hotel owner calling and threatening former guests - is probably unheard of and would never happen to most of the people, I hope. As for me, I have stayed at hundreds of hotels and hostels in various parts of the world both on business and pleasure so far, but never came across such an incident. So, I truly understand that some people find it hard to accept my story. Certainly I would have had difficulty believing it, had this been reported by somebody else. And you can’t imagine how much I wish things I wrote were “fake” as osumom311 and suehami suspected. But, regrettably, they are all undeniable truths.

Having said this, and in a response to enigma2007 and what dweymouth has written about me, I want to say I am sorry that I used different names on TA and that it was definitely wrong to do so. In my very first review, I wrote about the problem I had with the owner. I tried to negotiate the hidden credit card cost, which was revealed at payment, but was countered by his unprofessional reaction - whining, and then tremendous anger, yelling and threatening, and him telling me, “you have two options. Pay or go to the police" and "you don't deserve to be treated well", etc. And then I felt the need to write about his sudden breach of agreement regarding a late-check out and his remarks, “I changed my mind. You must pay extra if you want to stay after 12”. I also wrote how I felt about the room, the location being a bit far away from the main attractions, and the neighborhood not being very convenient for tourists. These were either facts or my honest, personal impressions. Then, a series of rave reviews started to appear one after another, with some offering misleading information, such as Sultanahmet Suites is only a short 5-minute walk from all the major attractions, and others attacking my personality. This instigated me in a way to reiterate what I had said before. So I did it and commented further on potential safety and security risks that guests might face in this usually unattended apartment building. This is because one day the power went down in the apartment and, since there was no staff, no flashlight or candles, we did not know what to do. We could not see anything at all. When we opened the door, there were other guests wandering the stairway, waiting for help. They had a candle, though, and my friend offered his lighter and they were able to walk back to their room safely. So, in such an emergency, guests are forced to get stranded and help each other, because there is no staff at the apartment most of the time and guests cannot expect someone to come and rescue. In this case, nobody came, of course, and the owner did not even know about the blackout until I told him a few days later. Then he handed me a big flashlight. If you are lucky, you don’t experience any emergency and you will have a perfect stay, as far as the room goes. But if you are not, you come to realize potential dangers. But yes, I should have condensed all these information in one review under one name. I wrote nothing fraudulent or with an intention to trash the hotel. When I wrote reviews, I had some hope that one day the owners would apologize, and made sure that I strictly stuck to the facts and my honest impressions. So I had nothing to hide, and so really should have written as Denizlove all way long.

I also respect the recent comment by osumom311, in which she branded my efforts to get an apology from the owners “a smear campaign”. Well, osumom311, as well as dweymouth, you did not go through what we experienced, so it must be extremely difficult to understand how deeply my friend and I were shocked and traumatized, so you have a perfect right to accuse me. But I would like to tell you that my friend is a very nice, quiet, and peaceful person, and he got so disoriented, when he received an abnormal level of threats for the first time in his life, that he said he would quit his job and commit suicide. I am not joking about this. I had to persuade him not to do such a thing.

I am somewhat relieved though, that at least osumom311 now seems less skeptical about the fact that the owners of Sultanahmet Suites threatened me and my friend. I would like to hear what dweymouth thinks about the owners’ threats against us that started immediately after my first review appeared on TA.

Unfortunately, there are some people who seem to change their attitudes depending on who they are dealing with. So even if some people might have enjoyed their stay, it does not mean that other people are guaranteed the same experience. And I am pretty sure if the owner yelled at a guest, who asked to negotiate a hidden cost, and later called the guest’s home in the middle of the night and made threats about a review, the guest would certainly feel that this information must be spread around as quickly and broadly as possible to prevent a recurrence.

Anyway, believe me I am not calculating anything, osumom311. What I want is a sincere apology from the owners and probably a pledge that they will never repeat this to other people, regardless of the ethnicity, gender, social status, other demographic attributes and other factors. I have clearly communicated to josephine009 last month that I want their apology ….. but in vain.

Last not but least, dear Mhughu, what I can tell you is that if you just need a wide space to spend your time, then you should be OK, because the room itself is more or less fine. The one on the top, 5th floor, is a bit smaller, but others have ample space. As dweymouth has just posted, the apartment is very small and has no elevator, so you need to go up narrow stairs. There is no restaurant, gym or room service. The building gets really dark and desolated at night, because there is no staff staying there. But, again, the “hardware” is more or less OK. The problem is the “software”. Probably it is better not to ask things that could potentially make the owner upset, like a discount or fixing complicated glitches for you. I will just keep my fingers crossed for you, but I am sure the owners will never repeat what they did to me, because all eyes are on them now! I sincerely hope the owners will emerge as totally different persons from what I witnessed, and will treat you and other customers properly with respect.

Cheers,

Denizlove

Villa Kirmizi Lale...
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for Kalkan
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23. Re: Don't stay at Sultanahmet Suites
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I have been following this thread with interest but feel compelled here to say something very simple. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation - and we will never know the truth except for the parties involved - how can we EVER 100% believe anybody who has, and by their own admission, posted negative reviews under different names.

I'm afraid, Denizlove, that you have 'cooked your own goose' by these actions. Any normal person would simply post under their one name and it shows a certain calculating mind to have behaved as such.

I think that this thread has gone far enough - it is now purely a personal vendetta between 2 parties and should be continued off the public forum.

Chicago
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21 posts
24. Re: Don't stay at Sultanahmet Suites
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Thanks FAED for your reply.

I also hope this issue will be solved asap. I feel grateful for all the suggestions, diverse views and moral support I have received officially and unofficially for my personal problem. Thank you again, all.

And, I may cook a goose, a real goose, for Thanksgiving but do not believe that I ever "cooked my goose" in my pure effort to share my experiences with the members of this community.

Cheers!

Denizlove

Istanbul, Turkey
Destination Expert
for Istanbul
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63 reviews
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25. Re: Don't stay at Sultanahmet Suites
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Hi Everyone,

At this stage it seems we have the whole story out finally. Here are some comments:

1 - Sultanahmet Suites, Joy and Josephine

In service industry like hotel management, customer satisfaction is the major goal. This has to be done professionally. Each customer is different, some more some less demanding. It is the job of the professional management to smoothly sort out all difficulties and to find amicable solutions to problems that arise. The hotel management may not be satisfied with a customer's attitude or behavior but should never internalize it and reflect it on their treatment of trhe guest. The hotel's satisfaction should come from happy customers. An apology is always a good solution. At this stage Joy SHOULD apologize for the way he treated Denizlove and her companion and this apology should me made public in this forum as Denizlove's apology for her using different pseudonyms for different reviews have been made public here.

Furthermore "encouraging" , prodding, or armtwisting guests to write favorable reviews for your hotel (as confessed in your post) is very unprofessional and unethical. Therefore these reviews have lost much of their credibility. If I were TA I would delete them all and give you a clean slate and a chance to start an honest, professional and ethical hospitality management practices.

2- Denizlove, you must have learned at least here that honesty, strightforwardness and openness is the only way to achieve credibility. Using different pseudonyms pretending you are a different person each time is also unprofessional and unethical. After your first review had been deleted by TA, you should have come directly to this forum and explain the circumstances. However traumatizing your encounter with Joy would have been, you do not need to be obsessed with this hotel any longer. Whether Joy apologizes for his behavior or not, all eyes will be on Sultanahmet Suites from now on.

Brighton and Hove...
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26. Re: Don't stay at Sultanahmet Suites
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Sorry Denizlove but I am afraid my original response was to your original post which was questioning the behaviour of TripAdvisor and suggesting that they were somehow in cahoots with the hotel owner by "deleting and refusing all critical reviews". The truth has now been shown to be very different during this whole very sorry story - which does not reflect well at all on either yourself or the owners of Sultanahmet Suites, both of whom have been shown to be duplicitous. Thanks to Dwemouth for his input - for once a fair review, and as usual to Osumom and Enigma - the only voices of sanity in this ever worsening tale of madness.

Italy/Alaska
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27. Re: Don't stay at Sultanahmet Suites
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FAED and others....Denizlove admits it was incorrect to use other

names for her comments and because we all make judgments

based on our own personal experiences and thoughts...just let me

say...

that two of the hotels I stayed at knew my forum name - alaskaitaly -

and have since contacted me after reading my hotel reviews and

posts on this forum.

It is not a pleasant experience to have your comments thrown back

at you in a hostile manner. I have thought to sign up under another

name to post only my hotel reviews...not to deceive anyone, but to

protect my privacy.

The hotels have our phone numbers, addresses, passport

information, etc.

Because of my personal experiences with hotels in Istanbul

being downright "strange" -"uncomfortable and threatening"...and

my reviews challenged by the owners...I felt a strong sense to

protect others from the experiences I had had - being challenged,

when I received phone calls from Istanbul from my

good friend who was being harrassed - I felt a bit powerless and

angry (perhaps a feeling that Denizlove has been experiencing?)

We can all be pressured into protecting ourselves in many

ways - fighting back is a natural defense. Denizlove realizes and

has apologized for the means she took - but I can understand why

she did it.

Would any of you really stay at this hotel after all of this?

28. Re: Don't stay at Sultanahmet Suites

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Jackson, Wyoming
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29. Re: Don't stay at Sultanahmet Suites
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I have given this a lot of thought. As in so many unresolved disputes both sides in this issue must accept blame for behaving in an unethical manner. None of us can ever really know what happened when Denizlove had an encounter on her final day. I do find it interesting however that Denizlove did explain the dispute and the subsequent tempter tantrum from her perspective.

Joy, on the other hand, has never given us their perspective. In fact Joy said they accepted the negative review and got on with their lives. I guess I interpret this to mean that they at least understood what had happened.

I doubt I would have disputed either the 4% charge or the change of policy on a late check-out so I believe that the original source of the argument was certainly not worth the argument. Denizlove, I think you would have been better served by saying nothing after Joy did not honor his original promise and just chalk it up to "never staying there again". It is dangerous so provoke people even if you think you are right.

This has been a difficult lesson for me to learn, but in my family we no longer honk our horn or scream at people in cars who drive badly and almost cause accidents. We do not get in arguments with strangers at all. In the state where I live nearly every adult has the right to carry a gun and can legally shoot any one whom they feel constitutes a threat to them. That law has caused us to rethink public displays of an argumentative nature. Learning to let go of the frustration is difficult, but in the end brings us less stress. Denizlove, I appreciate your PM in which you stated you were willing to drop the entire argument.

I believe that four very bad things happened here. First a hotel owner argued with a customer, in what has never been disputed by that owner, a loud and menacing manner. People doing business need to operate from the perspective of "the customer is always right". If that policy causes you to lose a bit of money in the short-term it always comes back to increase your business in the long term.

Alaskaitalty asks if we would stay at Sultanahmet Suites knowing what we now know, and my answer is "probably not" because it scares me to be around people with quick tempers. So that is one strike against Sultanahmet Suites for really bad customer service.

Denizlove was unethical when she made up additional screen names and posted them. By that action she appears to be not just angry about the service, but vengeful and destructive. I understand anger, but I do not think the original argument justified an attempt to destroy the business of a father, mother and little child. I think that Denizlove was way out-of-line by doing this. So that is one strike against Denizlove.

Joy shoud not, under any circumstances have called Denizlove or made any contact with her of a hostile nature after she left his hotel. Nor should joy have telephoned and threatened Enizlove's boyfriend. TA provides a perfectly reasonable avenue for the owner of a hotel who feels he has been abused to have an opportunity to tell his side of the story. If we had Denizlove's first negative review and Joy's explanation of why he thought it was not accurate we could read them and decide on our own. Likely one negative review would not damage business. Frankly, I would still like to hear why Joy felt it was OK to yell at a guest in the first place and why he thought it was OK to call her on the telephone and threaten her. So that is strike two for Sultanahmet Suites.

While I understand the value of good reviews for a hotel owner, I do not believe that they should be solicited by the hotel owner. I have experienced this in the past right here in the US. I think it is cheap and tacky. It is not, however, as bad as creating fraud by making up screen names and posting negative reviews, but it is not the most noble behavior a business might take. As many people have noticed it just makes all the reviews look suspicious when so many glowing reviews come all at one. It is probably again, not the best business practice. So I guess the would be a 1/2 strike against Sultanahmet Suites.

I am a huge believer in resolving difference, even if it means swallowing your pride and being the first person to say "I'm sorry". Joy did that in a private email to Denizlove, which I have read thanks to Denizlove's sharing it with me in a private email, and which appears to me to be honest and believable. I think Denizlove was unhappy because the apology came from the wife rather than the husband, but an apology is an apology. There was, if not an olive branch, at least an olive twig that Denizlove could have accepted by taking the high road and being a better person. So that is another strike against Denizlove.

However, once one apologizes it seems less than aappropriate to resume attacks, and Sultanahmet Suites did that so it shatters my faith in the legitimacy of the apology. So that is another strike against Sultanahmet Suites.

Finally, I do not understand why Joy elected to misrepresent herself as a friend of the owners rather than the owner herself. I would have placed more credability on an explanation from the owner than a "friend of the owner". I really wished people would not be so deceptive because I am also a fan of telling the truth. Again, TA permits hotel owners to comment on unfavorable rviews so the better approach would have been to accurately identify oneself, and it was totally obvious that Joy was the owner not a "friend".That is another strike against the Sultanahmet Suites.

But finally, Denizlove understood it was wrong to post using fraudulent screen names. In my book an apology pretty much wipes out anything that does not constitute financial loss or physical harm.

I would like to see that same act of good faith from the Sultanahmet Suites. So Joy, if Denizlove recognized that she went way overboard when she wrote false reviews and has said she is sorry, what more do you want her to do?

Please understand Joy that I understand that you felt very threatened. I know that you operate on a small profit margin and the whims of a single tourist can make or break bookings for long periods of time. I do not justify what you did because you were worried for your business, but I understand how extremely serious you took that bad review.

Alaskaitaly asked if we would stay in the Sultanahmet Suites, and earlier I said "probably not". My "probably" turns on this single issue. I think Sultanahmet Suites owes Denizlove an apology. If Joy wrote that he wished he had handle the entire affair differently and that, like Denizlove, he regrets acting in anger I would very likely stay at his establishment.

Sultanahmet Suites has several things going for it. First it has a seal of approval from Tom Brosahan. Second it offers a unique form of self-catering opportunity in a community where there is no other opportunity like that. Third, the owners generally seem anxious to operate a successful business. Fourth, hey, those photos look great!

If Joy can tell me that he has learned a management lesson from this sorry affair and can promise me that regardless of whether I am happy or not he will not call and torment me and threaten me after my stay, then my answer to alaskaitaly is yes. I would likely stay at this hotel.

When my two-year-old grandchildren get in a fight, I make them say they are sorry, hug and kiss and make-up. I do that because it will not be long before they will not do that on my command. However, if Sultanahmet Suites wants my business I need some "making up" at least to the degree that I do not have to worry about threatening phone calls after I leave the hotel.

I understand the anger and the fear on both sides of this issue. There is enough blame to go around. We have all weighed in on our own interpretation. I think it is past time to let go of the anger, apologize and get on with business as usual. I would offer Joy an opportunity to do that.

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