OK. It is now Feb 23, and no replies. Is anyone out there? Doesn't anyone know anything?

Try Mapquest.com

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would want to visit San Carlos.

Map quest maps are near useless.

Why would you not want to visit San Carlos? If you know anything of the Apache you know they were and are a decent and honourable people. Why not talk to them? Why not get to know them? Learn from them? Are we so right in what we do? So perfect?

The more I read of the Apache on the net the more interested I become. You might care, from your lofty San Francisco heights, to peruse the demographics of San Carlos: 57% unemployment. Close to 60% living below the official US poverty level.

Yet, look at the crime figures. There is virtually no crime at all on the reservation. (In England areas of high unemployment are areas of high crime. The corollation is inescapable).

Who would not be interested in talking to the Apache? They have an honour system. We, sadly, have lost ours.

Whether they encourage friendship is another matter, and I don't know the answer to that. But I am interested in going to San Carlos to have a look. Thank you for your reply. Although I do not agree with you, you did at least reply. Thank you.

My terse reply was a little rude. I apologize.

Although I live in San Francisco, I was born in Flagstaff, raised in Tucson (about 90 minutes from San Carlos) and am one 1 eigth Dineh on my mothers' side, so I have little bit of perspective on Indians.

I'm just not sure what you expect to find in San Carlos. Of all the indians of the southwest, the Apache have the least of their culture intact.

Thanks for your reply. I shall not dwell long -it is 1245am, I have several beers inside me and have to get up in a few hours.

I have no idea what to expect. But the Apache do sound interesting and I might learn a thing or two. They have a culture that has some meaning, and struggle to keep it alive in the face of some fierce, arrogant (and dogmatic) opposition. Their future? Dunno.

I am always interested in meeting new people, and as I will be there anyway it seems silly not to see what I can see -if that makes any sense.

You obviously know more than me and I would welcome an email chat. But, in a few days I fly out to Cambodia. Be there most of March. Net access not good.

My email address: martin@walkerprods.plus.net

Thanks again.

Thaimartin,UK I just read your piece of tidbit about coming to San Carlos, AZ back in 2005. Did you make there? I'm a native of San Carlos Apache Tribe and if you like, I can tell you a little about our culture and the reservation. E.B.

Hi. Thanks for your reply. Not looked at this forum for quite a while as my previous plans to visit AZ fell thru. However, by a strange co-incidence, your reply comes at the exact same time that I am planning a trip to the area for next month.

I would like to discuss the area and it's peoples with you; can I suggest we use email? My email address is in a post just above yours.

Thanks E.B.

oops! My email address not correct. Substitute com for net.

Hi, It's me Big Ed Tucson Glad to hear from you, I thought that you might have forgotten to come to San Carlos since you wrote that article about two years ago. I'm surprise that no one tried to answer you on your request about my reservation. Lots of people visited San Carlos, fishermen, hunters (small and big games), and gamblers. Even campers come there for the week-end, camping up in the mountain area during the summer when its nice and cool, getting away from the heat in the big cities, like Phoenix and Tucson. If you do come the "Rez" you need to buy a permit to travel outside the city limits, like the mountains or the lake area. No permit if you go to the casino or to San Carlos. Let me know when you're coming and I'll try to help you out to the best of my knowledge, so you won't get in trouble. Okay? Be waiting for your reply.

Just a hint. Maybe you guys use the Private Message option instead publishing your e-mail addresses. No PM features in 2005.

Good luck

Tet