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Trophy hunting in the Timbavati Game Reserve

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Naracoorte
posts: 1,491
reviews: 14
Trophy hunting in the Timbavati Game Reserve

I have only just realised that trophy hunting of white rhino, elephant and lion (along with other species) is done in the Timbavati. Here I am donating to Kruger National Parks anti-poaching cause to fight the scourge of poaching and rhino hunts are taking place in the neighbouring reserve. Elephant poaching is a rising catastrophe all over Africa. Lion numbers are plummeting. I guess it was stupid and naive to not think otherwise, but how is it that poachers are being shot poaching rhino but rhino are being sold to international hunters by private owners? It is just beyond me.

Hamburg, Germany
posts: 25
reviews: 23
111. Re: Trophy hunting in the Timbavati Game Reserve

Thanks liz I - 100 percent with you

New York City, New...
posts: 1,884
reviews: 45
112. Re: Trophy hunting in the Timbavati Game Reserve

Dear Bajanimport and All,

I just reread your piece and on a friendly discussion...

" Every reserve in South Africa culls animals to some degree ( massive generalization but I will justify it ) because they are all FENCED. "

Not true.

Just googled it. A lot of them are now UNFENCED especially with respect to KNP. Since this was primarily about timbavati, I looked it up. It is now unfenced with KNP and thus share Kruger's animals.

" Please remember that Game Reserve owners invest huge sums of money into developing their land. Land has to be bought, fenced and roads constructed, lodges built and they buy every single animal on the reserve. "

when these land owners decided to move from cattle to wildlife what was their business model plan? Let us raised wildlife and shoot them for money? Maybe they thought the tourist would be enough to cove their expenses and when they got it wrong, they decided to do some " culling " to improve their bottomline. This reminds me of a case here in the US wherein a business owner was failing and to save his business he went into-- drugs.

And to reduce their expenses of upkeeping the animal population--- why not remove the common fence with KNP and have those animals move freely to their land?

" None if this is pleasant, but most of us would prefer wildlife to beef and whilst most of the world eat meat we cannot be two faced about it."

Never heard that pig/chicken/goat/duc/cow were vurnerable, much less endangered.

" The harsh reality is in the case of South Africa but also other countries there is not enough land for wildlife and human beings just do not value wildlife enough. "

I agree with the first statement. The most dangerous and prolific breed of an animal- man- does not care enough about wildlife.

But I do not agree with your second statement. " If wildlife does not pay the land will be used for cattle or agriculture. " Why did the farmers leave cattle raising in the first place? I looked it up online and it seems wildlife is more financially rewarding than cattle raising.

This paper, though very long, talks on the items that you raised, including regulated hunting, elephant contraception, etc. including why cattle raising was changed to wildlife viewing.

…arizona.edu/mosquito/…Commons.html

I wholeheartedly agree with you that we all must find ways to raise funds to protect the wildlife. And if controlled culling is needed, let the government do it (even if it is "sold" to people- money can be plowed back to the community). For private institutions to do it, the motive is very suspect- profit. For a government, in all likelyhood, not so. (not talking about corrupt government officials who "sell" extra hunting permits because their personal pockets are lined).

What is UNACCEPTABLE is " culling " of an endangered species. Just cannot find a justifiable reason for this.

New York City, New...
posts: 1,884
reviews: 45
113. Re: Trophy hunting in the Timbavati Game Reserve

Oh, so sorry that someone already clarified the post re. the fences! I was reading up on the topic and writing my reply.

what liz said about the elephants is mentioned in the article I posted a link to.

Edited: 10:37 am, March 24, 2013
Isle of Man, United...
posts: 31,046
reviews: 188
114. Re: Trophy hunting in the Timbavati Game Reserve

Nice reply bigwawao.

I agreet totally. the 'smart' money moved into Wildlife from loss making cattle production and is not likely to move back.

Stop hunting and the smart money can move on again. Hopefully far away from where they can claim proprietorial rights over wildlife which belongs to everyone.

Hamburg, Germany
posts: 25
reviews: 23
115. Re: Trophy hunting in the Timbavati Game Reserve

So we will add 2 more to the CARNAGE ?

Timbavati - the owner who can only see his $$$

--------------

UPDATE ON RHINO POACHING - Horrific - below - the loss of the 5 soldiers - the rhino mutilated alive

A rhino cow had to be euthanised in the Kruger National Park after she was badly mutilated by poachers a day after a SA Air Force helicopter crashed in the Park claiming the lives of all five soldiers on board.

The SAAF helicopter was participating in a rhino anti-poaching operation on Saturday night when the accident happened. The cause of the accident is being investigated by the SA National Defence Force.

On Sunday, SANParks rangers heard two shots and reacted with the support of the SANParks helicopter. During a brief contact, one armed suspected poacher was arrested. A .375 rifle and silencer were recovered. A badly mutilated rhino cow was found alive close to the scene of the contact.

The animal was bleeding profusely from having its horns, entire mouth, tongue, nose and eyes hacked off and had to be euthanized. The search for the alleged poacher’s accomplice is continuing.

This brings the number of rhino poached in South Africa since the beginning of the year to 203.

The Kruger National Park remains the hardest hit with 146 rhino having been poached since January. A total of 18 rhino have been killed in North West, 17 have been killed in KwaZulu-Natal, 13 in Limpopo and 10 in Mpumalanga.

A total of 60 people have been arrested, 36 of them in the Kruger National Park. The reduction in the number of arrests can be attributed to the fact that the case against nine alleged poachers arrested near Lephalale in March has been withdrawn in the local Magistrate’s Court. This means that cases are being pursued against 11 alleged poachers in the province at present, and not 20 as previously reported. Three alleged couriers were arrested in February.

Fifty-six incursions by alleged rhino poachers were recorded by members of the KNP ranger corps between 21 March and 1 April 2013.

In the shootouts that ensued with poachers, one alleged poachers was fatally wounded on Sunday, while another was believed to have committed suicide on Monday after he was surrounded by members of the ranger corps.

Hazyview, South...
posts: 3,248
reviews: 10
116. Re: Trophy hunting in the Timbavati Game Reserve

Good news:

timeslive.co.za/scitech/2013/04/03/15-years-…

Klaus

-Owner Abangane-

Hazyview

Gold Coast
Destination Expert
for Kruger National Park
posts: 2,386
reviews: 22
117. Re: Trophy hunting in the Timbavati Game Reserve

What hope have we got.

It seems up in in East Africa the government is doing its best to encourage hunting of big cats and at the same time move to Masai people off their land.

>>>''A battle has erupted in Tanzania over the future of 30,000 Maasai people who claim a big-game hunting reserve for foreigners will lead to their eviction from ancestral lands.

Tanzania's will set aside 1,500 square kilometres bordering the Serengeti national park for a "wildlife corridor". The Maasai will be prevented from getting to their pasture land in the corridor, destroying their traditional nomadic cattle-herding lifestyle.

Access will however be granted to a Dubai-based luxury hunting and safari company.

The government has just announced that it plans to kick thousands of our families off our lands so that wealthy tourists can use them to shoot lions and leopards"<<<

Why is modern society going so backwards...

London, United...
posts: 377
118. Re: Trophy hunting in the Timbavati Game Reserve

I just despair thesandsman! There are countries that have antiquated gun laws, poaching, hunting and destruction of the Environment. I was going to get a Rhino card but have been reading about the destruction of conserved areas in KZN. I give up!

Hoeltown
posts: 4
119. Re: Trophy hunting in the Timbavati Game Reserve

Hi Guys

Thanks for the comments.

Re: fencing in SA. ALL game reserves are fenced including Kruger NP. Only SECTIONS of the fence have been removed, between Kruger NP and the Greater Kruger Area Reserves, such as the ones Liz mentioned, so it is true that GKNP has assimilated private reserves into one bigger one. At some point you hit a fence.. The area of fence you are discussing is the northern section of the fence from the Massingir Dam/Giryondo Border Post area. I am not aware that the Whole fence has gone between SA and Moz.

See the attached link showing the Greater Kruger Reserves. Please note that the Western edges of the Kruger and Greater Kruger Area are fenced and you also see that there are large urban areas adjoining Kruger so fences remain up.

sabisandslodges.co.za/Maps/GreaterKruger_Sab…

As to the principle of "sustainable take off" and its relations to predators and herbivores from Mfuwe, Isle of Man, if you take each individually i see your point, but you have to manage these "closed" ecosystems as a whole, and there are two different equations.

You must remove herbivores to protect the browse/veld conditions. Too many mouths to feed can lead to starvation etc. So the equations relates to the amount of rainfall vs the number of herbivores relative to the local conditions, veld type etc. equals carrying capacity.

In respect of predators the equation is roughly the same but you forget that population dynamics measure fluctuations in populations over long time scales. In a closed system where predators especially lions breed rapidly things can quickly get out of hand. Lions are very efficient at looking after their young and in small closed reserves there are often not other prides or free roaming males to occasionally kill young cubs.

When you have conditions that require you to remove herbivores you must carefully look at predator numbers because where you had x number of lions and y number of herbivores and suddenly you have removed a large number of the prey, the predators keep killing at the same rate, and breeding at the same time. Very soon there is nothing to look at.

The reason they shoot lions and elephant etc. is because hunters pay big bucks for it. They pay very little for shooting the odd impala.

This debate will run and run, especially when the US, home to most of the big international NGOs is also home to a US$33 billion dollar hunting industry (200 million animals shot annually in US, by less than 10% of the population) supported by State and Federal Govt., and most of the hunters come from US. They only way for this to genuinely stop is for US NGOs to sort out there own country before muscling in on Africa and beyond.

I do not like hunting in principle but African Govt.s are usually short of funds for Wildlife Infrastructure, hunting revenue offsets some of the cost from budgets. SA has an unemployment rate of about 30% so it is tough to think about animals when you have such huge issues.

If we want hunting to stop we have to stop it in our back yard first and go on a lot more Safaris!!!

Hoeltown
posts: 4
120. Re: Trophy hunting in the Timbavati Game Reserve

Mfuwe and bigwawao...

re: smart money and Kruger

The paper refers only to Kruger Park, and whilst it is true that there are no fences within GKNP there are fences at its extremities.

Game Ranching remains more profitable than cattle ranching as a business, but not necessarily as a tourism product. There are now 9,000 registered game farms in SA. Too many for tourists to visit all, so the rest make their money from meat and hunting, and some specialist breeding for reintroduction aka more hunting (sable and roan farms as well as disease free buffalo are popular choices)

The trouble is the more people get into it instead of cattle the smaller the margins get and the greater the pressure to raise revenue elsewhere.