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HPB - gold bondholders - changes to fund

Manchester, United...
posts: 2
HPB - gold bondholders - changes to fund

I should be obliged if other HPB gold bond holders would let me know what they think to the changes. Is it time to hang on and await a long dwindling demise of the fund ; or take the pain and pay up to continue to enjoy the stress free holiday arrangments.

Do you feel like me - let down.

Long standing bond holder

119 replies to this topic
London
posts: 13
reviews: 1
111. Re: HPB - gold bondholders - changes to fund

Hi, Thank you for that. I am very disappointed in myself for not realizing sooner what was happening to the Gold Fund.

So, is there are a pressure or lobby group of Gold Bondholders who have investigated this and do you have their contact details?

Do you know how many Gold bondholders there are and how much they put into the fund when they joined?

Is the Silver Bond holders fund also a closed fund.

If the gold fund is being reduced by management charges then what proportion of total management charges are being allocated to the gold fund relative to the diamond fund.

When the gold fund becomes worthless then who has the benefit of the capital increase resulting from the monies we invested?

initial thoughts only!

Glasgow, United...
posts: 50
reviews: 64
112. Re: HPB - gold bondholders - changes to fund

Hi Rich

There is no lobby group as far as I know and I suspect no Gold Member on the Bondholders Committee to lobby for you as they had inside information that we didnt.

.

I cant answer numbers with any accuracy , though I think they are given somewhere here. Silver closed very quickly and around 1000 were still members a few years ago

10 - 15000 Gold seems familar but memory cells are fading.

Posts by James Boyce from HPB start at post 6 and run through 11 34 57 to 73 and he explains the capital issue like this

The main parties behind HPB, HPB Assurance and the HPB Management companies, are agreeing to defer their Gold Fund fees until a Gold Bond is encashed because the securities element of the Gold Bond is no longer sufficient to pay them as they fall due. The deferred fees will attract no interest so the future unit price of the Gold Bond will largely depend on whether or not its property fund increases sufficiently in value to cover and exceed the deferred fees

So I guess the three companies will benefit and you have no idea how much your bond is really worth until you sell - unless they tell you the value of deferred charges each year.

Newmarket, United...
posts: 9
113. Re: HPB - gold bondholders - changes to fund

As there has been recent activity on this thread, I would like to repeat my offer, as Managing Director of HPB Management Limited, for anyone with any questions to contact me direct. You can either write to me at HPB House, Newmarket, Suffolk, CB8 8EH or email me on jboyce@hpb.co.uk.

I believe my previous postings address most of the issues raised and they can be found at posts 6, 11, 34, 57, 73, 82 and 85.

I would just like to correct one error in the previous post 112 from bdenhow of Glasgow. This states that you would have no idea how much a Gold Bond is really worth until you encash “unless they tell you the value of deferred charges each year.” As I have previously explained, the deferred charges are allowed for in the quoted Gold unit price. There is no further deduction should a Gold Bondholder choose to encash.

Finally, if anyone wishes to see the latest financial statements for both the Gold Bond and the current version, the Diamond Bond, these can be found in the Bondholders’ section of the HPB website or on request from me. These show that under the revised arrangements for Gold that Bond, like the Diamond Bond, had an operating cash flow surplus for the year.

I would also emphasise to any Diamond Bondholders (that is anyone who has invested after 2003 or who has converted to Diamond) that, although Gold and Diamond Bondholders each have access to the full HPB property portfolio, the securities elements of the two funds are kept separate, so that the Diamond Fund is not affected by the historic problems of the Gold Fund.

Best wishes

James

Glasgow, United...
posts: 50
reviews: 64
114. Re: HPB - gold bondholders - changes to fund

James

Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding. The profitability of the Gold fund is truly amazing after all the reasons for its poor past performance and the Bonds year on year losses of £5M in the past.

Are your financial statements properly audited accounts as in the past it was impossible to identify what was hidden in many of the headings? If they are why do you only publish so called financial statements.

Glasgow, United...
posts: 50
reviews: 64
115. Re: HPB - gold bondholders - changes to fund

For accuracy and clarity

I refer to quoted Income of £17.9 M and Expenses of £22.1M in 2010 and slightly worse figures in 2009

[ £17.9M vs £22.9M]

Bristol, United...
posts: 8
reviews: 4
116. Re: HPB - gold bondholders - changes to fund

Hi bdenhow

As I have said in previous posts I cashed up in September 2011 but have an occasional look at this blog to see if I made the right decision, I think I did, but regretted giving a lot of points back to the Bond, in return for not much money.

In any case we have reached an age when I am not much interested in leaving my own home and having a son in the USA with the grand children, requires an annual visit there, with a return on the QM2 is enough holiday.

I see you got a bit of a response from jamesboyce to your concerns, what surprises me is the small reduction in the value of the gold bond in the last couple of years i,e. from Sept 2012 to July 2014 it has fallen from 56.5 to 54.4 ( 2.1 p ) when from Sept 2011 to Sept 2012 it lost ( 5.6 p ). There must have been a good uplift in the value of properties recently, or a good bit of accounting to achieve this.

I still think that eventually the Management will close the Gold Bond and extiguish the points the holders have. It will be costing the Management a lot of money to allow these points to continue when there is no equity to draw down.

Great Malvern...
posts: 6
reviews: 19
117. Re: HPB - gold bondholders - changes to fund

mmm............your note does not make for good reading and I hope and trust you are wrong.

It would be nice to have some reassurance from HPB that they guarantee to keep the Gold Bond.

I had hoped HPB would offer some preferential terms for long term bond holders to transfer as it must be in their interests to consolidate everyone. However, they remain fixed in their view with no encouragement at all to transfer to Platinum............something I just do not understand.

Certainly the HPB position has stopped us investing more into the bond and encouraging our children to do the same.

Glasgow, United...
posts: 50
reviews: 64
118. Re: HPB - gold bondholders - changes to fund

Gold now down to 52.8 compared with 61.6 for diamond according to FT

Glasgow, United...
posts: 50
reviews: 64
119. Re: HPB - gold bondholders - changes to fund

After my November post I have just had another look at bond prices and see

Gold price 49.9 and diamond now 59.7 according to Financial times on 18/4/15

So over 5 months that's a 5.5% fall on gold and 3.1% on diamond bond values ...

Meanwhile the stock market has risen to record highs and property prices are recovering.

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